Tuesday, June 29, 2010

Answering Khalid

A reader named Khalid posed questions which need more space to answer than the comment editor affords. I have therefore created this post to answer them.

No, I pray to God, the One, the only.
I do not pray to idols. Intention lies in the heart. God knows my intentions as well as yours. You have proven yourself to be quite deceitful. You regurgitate falsehoods and present them as facts as a means to bolster your preconceived notions. But I see through your lies. You have proven yourself to be the worst of the worst. I seek guidance and understanding from God not from some sheik, or imam, or mullah, or whomever.

You say Allah's promise has failed? To what are you referring?

Who did he promise victory to? To what conflict are you referring?

You say "Israel is still there, as living proof of Allah's impotence."

What are you talking about? Where in Quran does God say he wants Israel gone?

Present your evidence if you are truthful. And please don't tell me to go read so and so, or whomever, as they are not authorities in my eyes as I have given no authority to them over me regarding my religion. The Quran has been my criterion in this debate, what is yours?

The One God

`We have no way of knowing whether deity exists, nor if it does, its identity nature and characteristics. We have beliefs which are guided by various religious traditions, but we have no proof. God can neither be proved nor disproved.

I do not pray to idols.


I used the singular in my comment. You pray to Allah, an impotent idol. I can not prove nor can I disprove the existence of Allah, I can only prove that it is at best, an impotent idol. Stipulating for the purpose of this discussion, the divine origin and accuracy of the Qur'an, I can refer to it to prove my case.

You say Allah's promise has failed? To what are you referring?


Allah is on record as making promises of victory to his slaves.
  • 2:137. So if they believe in the like of that which you believe, then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allâh will suffice you against them. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.
  • 3:125. "Yes, if you hold on to patience and piety, and the enemy comes rushing at you; your Lord will help you with five thousand angels having marks (of distinction)."
  • 3:160. If Allâh helps you, none can overcome you; and if He forsakes you, who is there after Him that can help you? And in Allâh (Alone) let believers put their trust.
  • 13:41.See they not that We gradually reduce the land (of disbelievers, by giving it to the believers, in war victories) from its outlying borders. And Allâh judges, there is none to put back His Judgement and He is Swift at reckoning.
    • (See they not that We gradually reduce the land from its outlying borders.) Ibn `Abbas commented, "See they not that We are granting land after land to Muhammad ()'' Al-Hasan and Ad-Dahhak commented that this Ayah refers to Muslims gaining the upper hand over idolators, just as Allah said in another Ayah,

      ﴿وَلَقَدْ أَهْلَكْنَا مَا حَوْلَكُمْ مِّنَ الْقُرَى﴾

      (And indeed We have destroyed towns round about you.) ﴿46:27

  • 40:51. Verily, We will indeed make victorious Our Messengers and those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism) in this world's life and on the Day when the witnesses will stand forth, (i.e. Day of Resurrection),
    • ...(Verily, We will indeed make victorious Our Messengers and those who believe in this world's life). As-Suddi, "Allah never sends a Messenger to a people and they kill him or some of the believers who call them to the truth, then that generation passes away, but He then sends them someone who will support their call and will seek vengeance for their blood from those who did that to them in this world. So the Prophets and believers may be killed in this world, but their call will prevail in this world.'' Allah granted victory to His Prophet Muhammad and his Companions over those who had opposed him, disbelieved in him and shown hostility towards him. He caused His Word and His religion to prevail over all other religions, commanded him to emigrate from his people to Al-Madinah, where He gave him supporters and helpers. Then He caused him to prevail over the idolators on the day of Badr, when He granted him victory over them and he humiliated them, killing their leaders and taking their elite prisoner, driving them before him in chains. Then he did them the favor of accepting ransom from them. Shortly after that, Allah enabled him to conquer Makkah, and he rejoiced in his return to his homeland, the sacred and holy land of Al-Haram. Through him, Allah saved it from its disbelief and Shirk. Then Allah enabled him to conquer the Yemen, and the entire Arabian Peninsula submitted to him, and the people entered the religion of Allah in crowds. Then Allah took him (in death), because of his high status and honor, and He established his Companions as his Khalifahs. They conveyed the religion of Allah from him, called mankind to Allah, they conquered many regions, countries and cities, and opened people's hearts, until the call of Muhammad spread throughout the world, east and west. This religion will continue to prevail until the Hour begins. Allah says:

      ﴿إِنَّا لَنَنصُرُ رُسُلَنَا وَالَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ فِى الْحَيَوةِ الدُّنْيَا وَيَوْمَ يَقُومُ الاٌّشْهَـدُ ﴾

      (Verily, We will indeed make victorious Our Messengers and those who believe in this world's life and on the Day when the witnesses will stand forth) meaning, on the Day of Resurrection the victory will be greater and more complete. Mujahid said, "The witnesses are the angels.''...

  • 8:65. O Prophet (Muhammad)! Urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast persons amongst you, they will overcome two hundred, and if there be a hundred steadfast persons they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are people who do not understand.
    • ...(If there are twenty steadfast persons among you, they will overcome two hundred, and if there be a hundred steadfast persons, they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve.)

      The Ayah says, one Muslim should endure ten disbelievers. Allah abrogated this part later on, but the good news remained. `Abdullah bin Al-Mubarak said that Jarir bin Hazim narrated to them that, Az-Zubayr bin Al-Khirrit narrated to him, from `Ikrimah, from Ibn `Abbas, "When this verse was revealed,

      ﴿إِن يَكُن مِّنكُمْ عِشْرُونَ صَـبِرُونَ يَغْلِبُواْ مِاْئَتَيْنِ﴾

      (If there are twenty steadfast persons among you, they will overcome two hundred...) it became difficult for the Muslims, when Allah commanded that one Muslim is required to endure ten idolators. Soon after, this matter was made easy,

      ﴿الَـنَ خَفَّفَ اللَّهُ عَنكُمْ﴾

      (Now Allah has lightened your (task)), until,

      ﴿يَغْلِبُواْ مِاْئَتَيْنِ﴾

      (they shall overcome two hundred. ..)

      Allah lowered the number ﴿of adversaries that Muslims are required to endure﴾, and thus, made the required patience less, compatible to the decrease in numbers.'' Al-Bukhari recorded a similar narration from Ibn Al-Mubarak. Muhammad bin Ishaq recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "When this Ayah was revealed, it was difficult for the Muslims, for they thought it was burdensome since twenty should fight two hundred, and a hundred against a thousand. Allah made this ruling easy for them and abrogated this Ayah with another Ayah,

      ﴿الَـنَ خَفَّفَ اللَّهُ عَنكُمْ وَعَلِمَ أَنَّ فِيكُمْ ضَعْفاً﴾

      (Now Allah has lightened your (task), for He knows that there is weakness in you...)

      Thereafter, if Muslims were half as many as their enemy, they were not allowed to run away from them. If the Muslims were fewer than that, they were not obligated to fight the disbelievers and thus allowed to avoid hostilities.''...

Allah promised aid and victory. He promised a 10:1 kill ration, then reduced it to 2:1. What happened in 1948 ? What happened in 1967? What happened in 1983? Who had more men? Who had more weapons in '48? Allah did not keep his promise, because he is an impotent idol.

You have proven yourself to be quite deceitful.

No, I made accurate statements of opinion, based on the best references available, to which I linked so that readers can verify the evidence and explore the context.

regurgitate falsehoods

Unlike others, I do not lift text from The Prophet of Doom and other books. I state my own opinion and I support it by posting the references from Islam's canon on which it is based.

I seek guidance and understanding from God

How is that working out for you? Was it God who "guided" you to switch from a faith that teaches gentle persuasion to a cult which teaches genocidal conquest? In which New Testament Book, Chapter & Verse did Jesus Christ command & exemplify genocidal conquest & terrorism? I am not asking for parables and metaphors, I am demanding clear commands & examples, the functional equivalent of 2:216, 3:151, 8:12, 8:39, 8:59, 8:60, 8:67, 9:29, 33:26.

Is it recorded in the book of Acts that Jesus was made wealthy by conquests? Is it recorded in the book of Acts that he was made victorious by terror?

Allah's book came entirely from the mouth of Moe. There is no way of testing his source. But the collected & codified oral traditions of his companions give us a hint.
  • Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3453:
    'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Then when Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, revealed this:" You may defer any one of them you wish, and take to yourself any you wish; and if you desire any you have set aside (no sin is chargeable to you)" (xxxiii. 51), I ('A'isha.) said: It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire.
  • Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 311:
    Narrated Aisha:

    I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."

Now comes A'isha, Moe's only virgin bride, the closest of his companions, in whose bed Moe received revelations, accusing him of issuing situational scripture. Why is the same story narrated in the two most authentic hadith collections? Lets have a look at the context.
  • 33:51. You (O Muhammad ) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive whom you will. And whomsoever you desire of those whom you have set aside (her turn temporarily), it is no sin on you (to receive her again), that is better; that they may be comforted and not grieved, and may all be pleased with what you give them. Allâh knows what is in your hearts. And Allâh is Ever All­Knowing, Most Forbearing.

    33:52. It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses. And Allâh is Ever a Watcher over all things.

    33:53. O you who believe! Enter not the Prophet's houses, except when leave is given to you for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation. But when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken your meal, disperse, without sitting for a talk. Verily, such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet, and he is shy of (asking) you (to go), but Allâh is not shy of (telling you) the truth. And when you ask (his wives) for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not (right) for you that you should annoy Allâh's Messenger, nor that you should ever marry his wives after him (his death). Verily! With Allâh that shall be an enormity.
Now you have a problem, which can not be solved. The Qur'an is pre-ordained, it can not be edited.
  • 85:21. Nay! This is a Glorious Qur'ân,

    85:22. (Inscribed) in Al-Lauh Al-Mahfûz (The Preserved Tablet)!
A book, supposedly written by a pen commanded by Allah before the creation of the world contains pecuniary details of the final Profit's marital affairs. Yeah, right. The guidance for all mankind, in all places, in all ages tells Moe how many wives he can have, when he can't have any more,. but he can exploit all the slaves he can capture. His wife nails him with it. This should be a clue for you.


Where in Quran does God say he wants Israel gone?

God said nothing in the Qur'an. Moe said it all, attributing it to Allah, the moon deity of pagan Arabs, one of 360 idols in the Kabaa.
  • 9:29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
  • 7:167. And (remember) when your Lord declared that He would certainly keep on sending against them (i.e. the Jews), till the Day of Resurrection, those who would afflict them with a humiliating torment. Verily, your Lord is Quick in Retribution (for the disobedient, wicked) and certainly He is Oft­Forgiving, Most Merciful (for the obedient and those who beg Allâh's Forgiveness).


Allah commanded Muslims to wage war against Jews & Christians until they are subjugated and extorted. The command is amplified by several hadith. The first of these sayings applies directly to the Hijaz, but it has wider implications. He said that he would send someone to torment the Jews. Who would he send?
  • Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 392:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe.You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
Moe said that he owned the world and he wanted the Jews to convert or get off. Re-read the clauses I emphasized.
  • Sunan Abu Dawud 14.2477
    Narrated Ibn Hawalah:

    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: It will turn out that you will be armed troops, one is Syria, one in the Yemen and one in Iraq. Ibn Hawalah said: Choose for me, Apostle of Allah, if I reach that time. He replied: Go to Syria, for it is Allah's chosen land, to which his best servants will be gathered but if you are unwilling, go to your Yemen, and draw water from your tanks, for Allah has on my account taken special charge of Syria and its people.
Moe said that Allah took special charge of the Jews & Christians on his account. Moe placed high priority on invading and conquering them.

  • Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985:
    Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.
Moe told the Muslims that they could not get into Paradise until they hunt down and kill the last Jew. Got a clue yet? Why is this hadith quoted in the HAMAS Charter ?

Moe claimed the earth for Allah and himself. He commanded the Muslims to wage war against pagans until only Allah is worshiped, against "people of the book" until they are subjugated and extorted. The imperatives are in 8:39 & 9:29. The titles of Ibn Kathir's tafsir topics on those ayat are instructive.

Triumphalism

This is a concept Muslims do not want to deal with. Ibn Kathir dealt with it.
Ibn Kathir supports his "good news" with verses from the Qur'an. After all, his tafsir is an explanation of the meaning of that book.

8 comments:

Khalid said...

Ben,

This is for your edification not mine. Just because someone said something in the 14th century does not make it so. Tafsir are merely opinion.

God is not constrained by time so citing events that took place in 1948, 1967, or 1983 really has no bearing on Gods' decree. What will be will be. Do you pretend to have insight into how all things will end?

Actually, the guidance I have received from God has been quite beneficial. I feel blessed.

It is my belief that God has guided me to a straight path.

There are 286 ayah(verses) in the 2nd Surah; you site one verse. there are 200 verses in the 3rd Surah; you cite one verse. Allow me to cite you one verse out of many:

2:136
Say: "We believe in God and what was sent down to Abraham,and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the Prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them and to Him we submit."

you say according to some hadith the Prophet allegedly said the World belonged him and Allah but in another Hadith during the end times he alleges a tree won't tell on a Jew because it's a Jewish tree!?!?!? Sounds authentic to me(said in a sarcastic voice)Do you even know what you're arguing?

I'm not a part of Hamas. Maybe you should ask someone who is. I don't speak for them and they don't speak for me.

Khalid said...

Ben,

You stated you "made accurate statements of opinion, based on the best references available, to which I linked so that readers can verify the evidence and explore the context."

Opinions are by definition inaccurate. I recommend finding better references.

Ben said...

Dear khalid,
Moe made some predictions about how it will end. You can find one of them cited and documented in "The Defamation of Jesus Christ. Check Ibn Kathir's tafsir of 7:167.

Allah promised victory, he did not deliver.

Visit MEMRI and view the videos of kutbah. One of them is included in Geert Wilders' FITNA. Why do Imams preach it?

Islam and HAMAS are the same thing. Read their charter.

Ben said...

Dear Khalid,

When it comes to Islam, there are no better sources than its canon of scripture, tradition, exegesis & jurisprudence. Those, plus the Sira, are the works cited by the major scholars.

Khalid said...

Ben,

sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

So I guess the Pope speaks for every christian or the state of Israel represents the will of every Jewish person.

According to your logic, anyone claiming to be of any authority on any subject should be followed blindly without question.

You find those sites pleasing to your eyes because they help confirm what you think you already know. It's like the blind leading the blind.

To you your way and to me mine

Ben said...

Dear Khalid,

The Catholic Church & Pope do not define Christianity. Jesus and his Apostles did that.

Christians are guided by the Holy Bible, not the Pope, Just as Muslims are misguided by the Qur'an & sunnah.

The state of Israel is not a religious authority. It does not govern the diaspora.

According to my logic, every individual should do his own independent research, judge the facts on the basis of available evidence and exercise his or her own judgment. I do not advocate slavish obedience to self appointed experts.

I learned by reading what others were posting on Netscape's long since defunct Mid East Tension message board and following the links they posted. Later I read Shakir's translation of the Qur'an.

I spent a month reading Craig Winn's The Prophet of Doom, which confirmed wha I had already learned.

That was later confirmed by Suhas Mujamdar's Jihad: The Islamic Doctrine of Permanent War.

What I had already learned was later confirmed by searching the hadith collections of Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud & Malik's Muwatta.

I found what I learned from those texts confirmed by tafsirs and Reliance of the Traveler.

Allah's word, Moe's word & Moe's works form a congruent pattern which points out the truth about Islam.

Allah said "fight them". Moe said "I am ordered to fight". Moe waged 86 battles between 622 & 632. Only two of those battles were defensive.

Moe dictated and dispatched extortion letters, following up with his army. The letter to the rulers of Aqaba is most instructive because it is the least obscure of the missives.

The letters to the Byzantine Emperor and the Jews at Khyber are valuable because the aftermath can be checked in the Qur'an & hadith.

All of those sorces contain data points whitch match up in a congruent pattern.

That pattern is confirmed by Islamic law, codified in Umdat as-Salik, which is translated as Reliance of the Traveller.

Book O, Chapter 9.0, 9.1, 9.8 & 9.9 are documented with links on the landing page of Crusader's Armory

They match up directly with the Qur'an & hadith. "The caliph makes war upon Jews...", "The caliph fights all other peoples...".

The willfully blind refuse to perceive those matching patterns which confirm the obvious.

Sohail said...

Mr. Ben if you or your Dr. Scot are right then why dont you arrange an open debate with Dr. Zakir Naik.

Dr. Zakir always welcomes the people who misunderstood the Quraan and Sunnah.

I think you have seen the debate between Dr Willium Campbell and Dr. Zakir Naik over Quran and the Mordern Science. If not you can use the following link.

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/educational/watch/v1698389aCXgBKB3

I am waiting for your Dr. Scot for an open debate with our hero Dr. Zakir Naik.

Ben said...

Dear Sohail,

I doubt that Dr. Scott is sufficiently familiar with Islam's canon to enter into debate with Dr.
Zakir Naik. In any case, his debates should be with Andre Carson, in the runup to the Nov. 2 general election.

I confine my debating to blogging & Facebook. I neither travel nor do t.v. appearances. I do not have the facilities for creating videos.

It is not possible in the normal debate format to bring in the level of detail required to prove a case. I much prefer the blog format. In case of the post on Dr. Scott's "principles", I was able to provide access, through links, to the information most useful to my readers.

If you really want a good debate, put Dr. Zakir Naik together with Christian Prince in his Paltalk chatroom for a good roasting. Its the Islam is False room under Social Issues > Human Rights.


Thank you for the link to the debate with Dr. Willium Campbell.