Saturday, June 26, 2010

Negotiating with Terrorists: Suicidal Idiocy

Four years on, and Gilad's still in captivity
To sign on to the Jerusalem Post's demand for the immediate release of Gilad Schalit, read the article linked above and post a talkback.

While I did leave a suggestion, it was not complete because I doubt that the Post would print what I have to say. I suggested that Bibi make a final best offer: Marwan Bhargouti dead for Gilad Schalit alive.

Moe, their Profit & role model, made his living1 by taking captives and holding them for ransom. When you pay ransom, you are an accessory after the fact, rewarding evil doers for doing evil. You get more of what your reward and less of what you punish.

Bibi has foolishly offered a 1000:1 ransom. Let him renege on that offer. On or immediately following the anniversary of the seizure, let the surviving members of Gilad's patrol fall in for roll call. Let them call his name three times. When he fails to answer, let one of the 1000 prisoners proposed for exchange be summarily executed and buried in a pigskin shroud.

Execute one prisoner from the list each day that week. On Monday of the next week, assemble the patrol for roll call. After roll call, execute two prisoners. Execute two more every day that week. On the third week, up the number to three. Escalate every succeeding week until Gilad is released.

If they threaten to torture Gilad, then torture the 1000 prisoners. If they kill him, then execute the 1000 prisoners. There will be bitter complaint & kvetching. Tell the complainers to go to Hell; who kvetched when Gilad was seized and his compatriots murdered?

They will invoke the Geneva Accords: tell them to go to Hell; who enforce the accords against HAMAS? They will go crying to the Security Council: tell the U..N. to go to Hell; their resolutions are null and void, of no effect. Stick
UN Resolution 1701 up their nose.

Be a Mensch, Israel, get off your knees.

1.

18 comments:

Khalid said...

U cite hadith as if it's scripture. none of the alleged authors of hadith u cite were even alive during the prophet's time.u act as if all Muslims follow these edicts blindly and w/o question.

Ben said...

Only a selected few, about 40 are considered Qudsi. Unfortunately, hadith share a common means of transmission with the Qur'an.

Classical Arabic in the 7th century lacked vowels and diacritical marks. It was nothing more than a memory aid; one needed to know the text before he could reliably read it.

One would need to read Arabic and lay out plenty of money to obtain the unabridged set of Sahih Bukhari to trace the isniad. Many of the narrators were companions of the Profit. Those traditions, like the Qur'an, were transmitted from mouth to ear for generations before being codified.

Hadith, besides being critical to exegesis, are the basis of Sira and play a crucial role in codifying Shari'ah.

Muslims are commanded to emulate Moe. To do that, they must know what he did. Hadith are the source of that information.

Khalid said...

Muslims are commanded to believe in the Prophet they are not commanded to follow Hadith. It is obligatory that Muslims believe in the Quran and the other holy books. It is not obligatory for Muslims to believe in Hadith. Hadith are not divinely inspired as there is no mention of the "traditions" of the Prophet in the Quran. Some of the most critical aspects of the messenger’s life have been recorded and captured in the most detailed manner in the Quran. The questions that he was asked, and the answers (inspired by God) that he gave; ex: 2:219/ 17:85

If I want to know what the Prophet thought I'll read the Quran Thank you very much. I don't need to go by what someone heard from someone who heard from someone who heard what the Prophet said. I am a critical thinker. Any critical thinker knows if you want to know the Truth you go to the source.

So for you(non-Muslim) to tell me(Muslim)how to be an "authentic" Muslim is asinine as you lack understanding or belief.

Khalid said...

41:44 makes it clear that language is no barrier to understanding the Quran.

39:18 states

"The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence."

Anonymous said...

Ben, why do you spell "prophet" as "profit"? Maybe I'm missing out on some witty pun implying a profit-maker, or is this just a pretty critical spelling error?

Ben said...

Khalid, here is the verse which sets up Moe as your exemplar.

33:21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad ) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.

Here is a verse which commands you to obey him.

4:59. O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad ), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.

Since his death, obedience is through following the Qur'an & sunnah.

Ben said...

41:44

It says that the Arab s would complain if the Qur'an was in another language, not that they would understand it in that case.

Many Muslims memorize it in Arabic without knowing what it means because Arabic is not their language.

Ben said...

Anonymous, I spell it Profit intentionally because Moe was a profiteer, not a prophet.

Refer to my blog post for the gritty details.

Islam's Mercenary Mission

Anonymous said...

Son of Christ in Pakistan,

Do you have any idea what you people are setting up us for? Do you think there are more muslims in non muslim areas or more non muslims in muslim areas?

If the taliban get hold of Pakistan and they start rounding us up, it will be a disaster.

If the taliban set up prisons like gitmo, what will we do, if they torture us like gitmo what will we do.

Dont Quit Afghanistan or we are all DOOMED here. Dont do things like gitmo or we will be doomed here. The muslims have a far larger population of us here to persecute that we christains or jews do in the west. Think before you decend hell on us on this earth. Think before you make such irresponsible posts.

Ben said...

Dear Anonymous,
Brother, I regret to state that you are screwed in any case. Unless someone will come up with money, visas, offers of asylum and transportation to get you out of there, you will eventually be tortured and murdered.

I confess that, in your situation, I would do a great deal of cursing. I would seek first a means of escape, and second, a means of killing the maximum possible number of Muslims before they kill me.

Muslims believe that only Allah has a right to be worshiped and to rule. Their accursed Profit declared open season on you. If you will not obtain guns and shoot them, you will be martyred.

We are losing this war because Shrub did not nuke Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Yes, those are harsh words. Unfortunately, they are true.

Yes, you would be collateral damage, a great injustice to you. But you will be a martyr in any case.

Muslims have a demonic license to kill, weapons and the will to use them. Unless we are willing to exponentially expand the mission of Fr. Zakaria Botros, there is only one thing we can do about it.

Unfortunately, nobody is willing and able to do either one. Western Civilization is doomed.

Khalid said...

Ben, you say

"Since his death, obedience is through following the Qur'an & sunnah."

According to whom?

Muslims are commanded to obey Allah and his messenger. The Quran IS Muhammad's life. Muhammad never authored any Hadith. They are not his words or Gods'.

IT IS NOT OBLIGATORY FOR MUSLIMS TO FOLLOW HADITH. ANY WHO FOLLOW SUCH WRITINGS DO SO OF THEIR OWN VOLITION.

We are not robots. You lack understanding and clearly lack faith.

Khalid said...

Ben,

41:44 states:

"And had we made it a non-Arabic compilation, they would have surely said: 'if only it's verses were made clear!' Non-Arabic and Arabic say: 'For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, there is deafness in their ears, and they are blind to it. These will be called from a place far away."


Memorization has nothing to do with UNDERSTANDING- your point is moot.

Ben said...

Dear Khalid,

We have no way of knowing the identity of the source of the words in the Qur'an, Sira or Sunna.

There is no external evidence that Moe ever had any communication, direct or indirect with deity.

The scholars assert that Bukhari collected many thousands of hadith, discarding those which were fabricated, weak or doubtful, including in his collection those he considered most authentic.

Anybody can say anything, tell his pals and his sons, and pass down a tradition. That is how the Qur'an & sunna were transmitted, with the exception of some surahs recorded by scribes on leaves, bones, sticks, used parchment and anything handy.

It is not possible to establish as proven fact that Moe existed, was truthful and sane or that he received revelations from Jibril.

You must take it all on faith. But the Sira & sunna indicate that Moe was anything but praisworthy and reliable.

There are ahadith in Bukhari's collection that indicate the revelation of situational scripture. Your faith is on a very wobbly foundation.

Ben said...

Dear Khalid,

Sheikhs & scholars claim that the magic of the qur'an, which is made for memorization & recital, not reading, is in the sound. They also assert that the Arabic text is the only authentic version.

Hence Pakistanis who speak only Urdu memorize the Arabic sounds of the Qur'an without knowing its meaning.

Qur'an & hadith are the main course of study in the madrassas.

Khalid said...

You clearly have not been reading what I've been saying. All religion is about faith and belief.

You want me to believe more in what the "scholars" say than what I can read for myself in the Quran. That is shirk.

You keep citing scholars like that means something i.e-So and so said the sky is yellow so u must believe the sky is yellow.' Never mind that I have my own eyes and can see clearly for myself that the sky is blue. If so and so says the sky is yellow then they must be right cuz i can't trust my own eyes. You are not an authority on anything.

You say "There are ahadith in Bukhari's collection that indicate the revelation of situational scripture. Your faith is on a very wobbly foundation."

I ask you: which came first, the ahadith in Bukhari or the Quran?

As a believer I have faith that God has guided me to where I need to be. God says in 109:6 "To you your religion, and to me mine." My faith is firmly rooted.

I'm not Pakistani. I'm not Arab. I don't speak Arabic. I am an American, born and raised. I am not a sheik or a 'scholar'. i have never attended a madrassa. i don't ascribe to a particular school of thought. I am neither sunni nor shia. Neither you nor any of those people you cite can tell me what it means to be a Muslim. God makes Muslims, not sheiks or scholars

You are false in every way.

Ben said...

Dear khalid,
I read and comprehend your comments. My strenght is in verbal skills, not in mathematics. When last tested, I scored 140.

I use the scholars to support the obvious, not as authorities. They provide one level of confirmation.

I make no claim of authority and need none. I have read the Qur'an and the relevant ahadith. I have sampled relevant segments of tafsir & jurisprudence. I share what I learned and I share my sources.

Ahadith & Qur'an came simultaneously, between 610 & 632. They come from the same source, through the same isniad: men who heard Moe's statements and observed his actions or claim they did.

109:6 is abrogated. Surah at-Taubah was #113 in order of sequence of revelation. It abrogates all prior verses which conflict with it. Try 9:5, 9:29 & 9:123. The tolerant, touchy~feeley ayat are abrogated. Ref: 2:106, 16:101.

Read your Koran! 8:2 & 49:15 define believers. 9:111 confirms the definition. 61:9-13 reveal what you must do to be saved from Hellfire.

You do not know your fard, religious obligations. You need to read Reliance of the Traveller, Book O, Chapter 9.1. You can look it up at Scribid.

Khalid said...

Ben,

You continue to try to tell me what it takes to be a believer, but you are not a believer.

I have read my Quran and I have had many questions. I pray for right guidance.

If the verses you cite were the only ones that mattered then the Quran would consist solely of those verses.

If as you say "The tolerant, touchy~feeley ayat are abrogated" why even include the other verses? By your contention they don't matter anyway. I tend to disagree that they don't matter.

Ben said...

Dear Khalid,

Unfortunately, it ain't that simple. It is necessary to remember that the Quran is a partial record of Moe's kutbah with individual revelations inserted.

Moe's preaching evolved with his circumstances. For ten years, he was in weak minority position in Mekkah, protected only by the patronage of his well connected uncle. During that period, he preached tolerance and forbearance.

After the migration, he became the warlord of Medina. As his army grew, fed by the proceeds of razia on camel caravans, his preaching became bolder, first permitting defensive fighting in al-Baqarah, later commanding offensive warfare in al-Anfal & at-Taubah.

That will not easily become clear without reading "The Sealed Nectar" or Ishak's Sira.

You might find the answers to some of your questions in Ibn Kathir's Tafisr. Maududi also includes a great deal of historical context in his. For may ayat, Sahih Bukhar explains the circumstances of revelation.

Those texts are available as searchable Windows Help Files. You can find download links here: Expanded Library

Allah can not be in conflict with himself. 2:256,can't coexist with 8:39 & 9:293.

Abrogated ayat are left in place, but deprecated. Later revelations abrogate earlier revelations with which they conflict. Look up the science of naskh at Brill's on line Encyclopedia for an excellent explanation.

You can find sequence of revelation charts on the web. They show the order in which the Surahs were revealed.

All of those verses would be harmless if they were not acted upon. 270 million people went to early graves because Muslims believed and implemented 8:39 & 9:29.

If you view the videos of Muslims demonstrating in London, you will see signs and banners with slogans such as "Islam will dominate the world". At Memri, you can see clips of Imams preaching that Islam will conquer and rule Britain & America besides reconquering Israel, Spain & Italy.

That supremacism & triumphalism come from the Qur'an. My blog post: ROPMA lists about a dozen tafsir topics from Ibn Kathir, each linked to its page in the tafsir. The titles are extremely informative. When you read them, you'll know the source of the slogans on the protester's signs.